שיחת משתמש:Jon (WMF)

If you can't read Hebrew, click here. עברית | العربية | English | русский | español | italiano

שלום Jon (WMF), וברוך בואך לוויקיפדיה העברית!
כדי לסייע לך להצטרף לקהילת הכותבים והכותבות בוויקיפדיה, באפשרותך: לפנות לַמדריך המלא למתחילים. להתנסות בעריכה בדף הטיוטה האישית שלך. לקבל סיוע מצוות החונכים בחממה, שישמחו לעזור.	לסיוע נוסף דפי עזרה קבלת ייעוץ עקרונות וקווים מנחים כללי התנהגות בדפי שיחה

בברכה, banba - שיחה - בואו נרוקן את זה! 21:45, 19 באפריל 2021 (IDT)

.I know that your administor but i just wanted to be the one that sent u the welcome message. ‏ banba - שיחה - בואו נרוקן את זה! 21:47, 19 באפריל 2021 (IDT)

tipsy, blanking

hi.

i really do appreciate the work you guys are doing fixing local scripts and gadget in order to prevent failures.

TBH, i do resent the decision to deprecate tipsy without offering appropriate replacement, but this is a different issue, and i just mentioned it here "in passing".

however, this is done a bit too "heavy handed". please leave the decision to keep "historical" scripts and gadgets as is, and do not "blank" them, even if they do appear in searches and add a tiny bit of complication to the great work you guys are doing.

peace. קיפודנחש 19:16, 17 במאי 2023 (IDT)

Tipsy has been deprecated for 9 years so there has been plenty of time to fix this and there are appropriate replacements. You can use OO.ui.PopupWidget for example. I'd rather we didn't need to fix these local scripts but doing this is more a necessity at this point, to avoid clogging our alerting systems with JavaScript errors.

Regarding historical scripts, you must remember this is a shared ecosystem. The reason we are able to fix scripts, is because we can search for code to fix. By retaining "historic" code in the MediaWiki namespace with a ".js" suffix you are making it harder for us to fix active scripts.

You must also remember that anything with content type JavaScript can be executed, and many gadget users do not understand code and include scripts they don't understand, so by leaving scripts you are potentially creating a vector for a security attack or introduction of bugs. Please see mw:Recommendations_for_gadget_developers_on_Wikimedia_wikis#Unmaintained_code_and_error_tracking (and feel free to engage in the talk page there).

There are other safer ways to retain these scripts. For example you could put it in a code block on a standard wiki page.

Thanks for listening. Jon (WMF) - שיחה 22:01, 17 במאי 2023 (IDT)

"Tipsy has been deprecated for 9 years" - indeed. and tasks to provide "appropriate replacement" have been open for almost as long: see phab:T147243, and phab:T88630, both of which were gallantly ignored for just as long.

as of now, there is no "appropriate replacement", and my personal opinion is that providing one, ideally by positively closing T88630, should have been a prerequisite to deprecating tipsy (with some window to allow transitioning). not that my personal opinion carries any weight - it clearly doesn't, but this does not stop me from expressing it... :)

popup can be used to display the content of the tip, but to use it, i have to handle the hover, timeout, and whatnot myself. the main point of tipsy is (was?) to provide the hover functionality, not necessarily to handle the popup, and mw never bothered to provide this, basically rejecting offhand the request to do so.

regarding blanking vs. other ways of disabling the script: i hear you. will try to find better solution next time. however, blunt blanking is not the right way. possibly moving to a non-js page and surrounding with syntaxhighlight tag would work better, but it will still be nice to leave a comment in original page, maybe something like

/* 
written by [[User:bla]], [[User:bli]] and [[User:blu]]
code is archived in page <whatever>
*/

peace - קיפודנחש 22:36, 17 במאי 2023 (IDT)

This works great! Thanks for hearing me. I like the idea of non-blanking and will propose that action going forward.

As for tipsy I think it's important to clarify that although tipsy is removed in mediawiki.org communities can restore it (ideally with a more recent version) as a gadget and that would likely be a much better position to be in. While I understand there is no perfect replacement in core, thats partially because there is not a product need there and thus little overlap between gadget and core needs... are there reasons you think it is important that such a library is shipped to users even if it's unused by anything other than gadgets? Jdlrobson - שיחה 20:25, 18 במאי 2023 (IDT)

Thank for hearing me. Tbh, i never thought about adding it as a local gadget - definitely something to consider.

As to your question: afaik, it is only used in local scripts and gadgets. However, the fact it was available as part of "core" for quite some time,created a situation that quite a few local scripts and gadgets depend on it, and this is the reason i expect that deprecating will not be executed without suitable alternative.

Peace. קיפודנחש 22:33, 18 במאי 2023 (IDT)

Hey, Jon

hi.

i noticed you did not clean mediawiki:gadgets-definition. as a result, gadgets that declared dependency on tipsy stopped working even though you actually removed the dependency from the code.

i'm telling you that because you might have forgotten this page in other projects, and you might want to rectify this. no need to do that here - i cleaned GD on hewiki already.

peace. קיפודנחש 00:06, 27 במאי 2023 (IDT)